What do you see as being your
legacy?
"Too many people want me to be history -
just history. They say nobody has done more
for the world in the second half of the 20th
century. I say, let history judge. I don't
think of myself in those terms."
Would you describe perestroika the
reconstruction of the Soviet system as a
revolution?
"It was a revolution in terms of the scale
of change and the extent to which our view of
the world and international politics changed.
We started to extricate ourselves from the
clutches of Marxism and opened the way for
the country to move from a totalitarian
system to democracy.
"We questioned the ideological division of
the world into hostile alliances, and changed
all that. So yes, it was a revolution. One
which brought our thinking and policies in
line with changes taking place in the rest of
the world."
As well as its benefits, did
perestroika have its down side?
"I think perestroika brought great gains.
We began moving towards political, economic,
intellectual and religious freedom. We
introduced the multiparty system, allowed
private property and are learning to work in
a free market, all of which is a colossal
achievement.
"But we made mistakes, too, particularly
with regards to the pace of change. And when
the interests of the nomenklatura [the
communist party state and party elite]
were affected they began to resist. Vested
interests in the defense sector were being
forced to change - but they resisted it.
"We should have used the chance we were
given by the people in a better way. We had
their trust, and we should have done more to
make it impossible for perestroika to be
derailed.
"We also acted too late to shape the union
of our republics; and separatists took
advantage of that."
During your time in power, you forged
many friendships with world leaders. Are any
of these still going strong?
"Yes. As time goes by our contacts have
become less frequent; we're not getting any
younger, after all. But I have maintained my
friendship with Margaret Thatcher and very
much appreciate the fact that she has
continued to speak out in support of what I
did. We had an excellent partnership."
How did you feel when you were awarded
the Nobel Peace Prize?
"It was a surprise. It was autumn 1990 and
a time of intense conflict between radical
democrats and those who wanted to get rid of
me. I couldn't even leave the country to
accept the prize. But it was a great stimulus
to me, and gave me the strength to stay the
course."
Do you consider yourself an
internationalist?
"The way I was brought up has made me a
man very firmly rooted in my own country. But
as Dostoyevsky once said, the Russian heart
is perhaps the most sensitive to universal
humanity. So, I would say that although I'm
Russian, my view of the world includes a
great respect for other nations and cultures.
I see no contradiction between patriotism and
internationalism."
You mentioned Dostoyevsky. Do you think
Russian culture is again ready to produce
great writers in his vein?
"Culture is a funny thing. Creativity
flourishes when passions are running high,
when a nation confronts changes, when people
want to make their country more democratic
and free, and when obstacles are faced and
mistakes are made. I think it is on that soil
that creativity flourishes.
"We abandoned one system but had nothing
new to put in its place. We lost our way. Now
there is a cultural renaissance with new
films, new literature and new theatre
emerging."
You were the first Soviet leader to
bring his wife into the limelight...
"Yes. Raisa once asked me, 'How do I
behave in this new situation?'. And I said,
nothing should change as far as we are
concerned. In the 46 years we were together,
we did everything as one. So, why change? It
would have been ridiculous - and that turned
out to be the second perestroika."
For women in Russia?
"Yes, perestroika in the most difficult
sphere, that of the state and role of women
in Russian society. That role was great in
terms of women in the work-force, but in
politics they were always pushed aside."
In her book "I Hope" Raisa talks a
great deal about her love for you. How would
you describe your relationship with your late
wife?
"When she died, I thought my soul had been
taken from me. Now I fill my time with
activities, but after so many years together,
it's very hard.
"I think my relations with Raisa were the
best a man and woman could have. We were both
lucky; we were real friends and partners.
"We had a deep intellectual rapport and
she suffered any injustice towards me
terribly. I think this suffering contributed
to her early death.
"But she never wavered from defending me.
She was working on another book, and after
her death, I found the outline for it. She
wanted to call it "What Pains My Heart." All
the material is there and I am considering
what to do with it."
Would your daughter consider writing
it?
"I'm probably the only person who could do
it, but I don't know if I dare."
What is your ideal of happiness between
a man and a woman?
"What Raisa and I had. I don't know how
better to say it."
Raisa's funeral was a religious affair.
Are you a believer?
"Raisa used to converse with a religious
leader whom she trusted and respected,
Metropolitan Pitirim. So when she died, my
daughter and I decided she should be buried
according to Orthodox Christian
tradition.
"I was the last person to agree to it, but
during the service in the cathedral, for the
first time in my life, I was profoundly moved
by the atmosphere and by the words of the
priests. But perhaps because I believe so
strongly in the force of reason, there is no
space left for faith.
"I have the most profound respect for
those who believe, however. That's how it has
always been in my family. My communist
grandfather had tremendous respect for my
grandmother who was profoundly religious.
"During the years of perestroika I took
the initiative in drafting a law on freedom
of conscience and religion. Experts have
since told me the version eventually adopted
was the most democratic law on the freedom of
religion in the world. We returned the
churches to believers and made it possible
for new churches to be built.
"What I don't like is when religion is
politicized. Faith is a private thing."
Why do you think divorce is so common
these days?
"This is something I discussed many times
with Raisa. Perhaps we were old fashioned but
we couldn't accept the 'innovative
relationships' between men and women. I
believe that a child can only develop
normally within a good family. Even the
'boyfriend-girlfriend' culture is now
entrenched. I don't really accept it, but I
don't infringe on the freedom of others."
Are you strict with your
granddaughters?
"No, I don't want to interfere with their
lives. But they have developed a personality
of their own. They have integrity and are
very good girls."
Now you have more free time, can you
enjoy more of your favorite cultural
activities such as theatre and
cinema?
"Not really. I actually have less time
now. But my passion for theatre and cinema
has remained."
Russia seems to need a strong leader.
Do you think President Putin is the man
Russia needs?
"People were extremely disillusioned by
Yeltsin's leadership. In his final months in
office, opinion polls showed more than 90 per
cent of the populace didn't trust him.
"People wanted a new leader, so they voted
for someone they knew little about. They saw
strong traits in him and hoped they'd get
lucky.
"Putin is well-educated, intelligent, and
has a valuable quality in that he can learn.
He's also ambitious. If he wants to help the
people, he can.
"He has already taken some steps that I
support, and so do the people. According to
opinion polls, he now has the support of 77
per cent of the country. He's made some
mistakes, but he deserves our support.
"We should also speak up about his
mistakes, however. We need an honest dialogue
within a democratic framework, and I think he
will be sensitive to such a dialogue."
What do you value most in life?
"Decency and reliability. Of course love
stands above everything else, but so far as
human qualities are concerned I also value
loyalty, openness and tolerance."
INTERVIEW: GAETANA
ENDERS
REPORT: TREE ELVEN
PHOTOS: SVEN ARNSTEIN
Reprinted on the
Internet with permission from
HELLO! Magazine.
Previous Story
